ZenPolitics


Libertarians and science

Posted in Economics, Politics by hktelemacher on the August 7, 2007

I am responding here to Orac’s post “What a lot of it boils down to when it comes to antscience” at Respectful Insolence regarding libertarians and science.

I am a libertarian, and I definitely believe that some libertarians take a contrary stance with regards to science because, at least IMO, they are not willing to acknowledge some of the hard choices that have to be made. For example, with regards to second-hand smoke, if libertarians do accept that second-hand smoke is harmful then you have a libertarian conundrum–one should be free to do what they wish so long as it doesn’t harm others, except second-hand smoke is causing harm.

When I apply libertarian principles to this factual scenario, I come up with the following policy conclusions:

1. Smoking that harms others in places where they have an absolute right to be–public facilities, public land, etc. may be banned outright to the extent that science shows such smoking to have an adverse health impact on those who have a right to be in that same place. Libertarians should have faith in the market to devise a solution to this health issue–a cigarette that eliminates second-hand smoke or eliminates the adverse health impacts of second-hand smoke. Libertarians are fond of saying that the market provides solutions, and we should have similar faith here.

2. People who own businesses should have the absolute right to determine whether to allow smoking in their establishment or on their property and under what conditions. My property, my rules. If you don’t like those rules feel free to patronize , or work at, another establishment. If I value employees who smoke as well as employees who don’t smoke, I will take appropriate measures, measuring the costs against the benefits.

At least number 2 is a run-of-the-mill libertarian position . . .

I also think that even libertarians need to take a look at the challenges associated with kids and second-hand smoke. On the one hand libertarians believe that parents should have broad discretion in how they raise their kids. On the other hand, if second-hand smoke is directly harmful to their health then you run into as issue that the kids aren’t exactly capable of giving informed and free consent to being harmed in this way. I contend that it is a different issue than how parents educate their children, although it runs a fine line against how you feed your children, whether you get your children vaccinated, and other health issues. These are not black-and-white issues to me, as I’m not fully content to say that parents can subject their kids to whatever–if we’re honest about the principle of being able to do whatever you want unless and until it harms another is it fair to simply dismiss harm caused to children?

This isn’t just a “think of the children!” excuse to enact broad legislation–I’m still in favor of minimal government whenever possible, and when it is necessary it should be specifically tailored to meet a specific need, but this is just to me a sticky libertarian issue that I don’t think my kind actively engage in enough.

The environment certainly is another tough one. Ideally polluters would be taken to court and held responsible for their polluting by those who were harmed by it. But in a practical sense our society is not set up to handle this issue in that way–courts are clogged, it can be difficult in some cases to prove harm, corporations shield individuals from liability, people die, or move, or corporations go out of existence . . . it certainly present challenges. And then there’s global warming . . . in order for a private enforcement system to be effective, you have to be able to assign value to damage done, and how the hell do you do that regarding individual polluters and global warming? Who would bring the private action? How would they prove their damages? What would a court do and how would it be enforced in a logical and consistent way?

Libertarians believe that if people individually cared enough about the environment, enough to put their pocketbooks where their mouth is, that the market would correct for pollution. But markets do have weaknesses, particularly in markets where the cost of entry is high and there are few market participants.

To take it back to science though, I think as libertarians we have to deal with the scientific majority in a more honest way. We can’t just stick our heads in the sand and side with a small minority of scientists because we feel it suits our economic model. This keeps us on the fringe and out of the main public discourse, which is that these scientific conclusions are real, at least as good as we can determine at this time, and how do we incorporate them into our political, social and economic framework? Most libertarians favor minimal government, but that government does have its place, and it is not honest to reject government just because it is government.

I know that this little rant doesn’t make me the poster child for libertarianism, but to me libertarianism is sound, rational political and economic policy, and most libertarians I know are sound and rational people. To me that sounds like a great match for scientists, who base their lives on science, which is a discipline based on logic and rationality. Some days I wish it was just as easy as libertarians having a little more faith in the scientific community and scientists having a little more faith in economic principles.

4 Responses to 'Libertarians and science'

Subscribe to comments with RSS or TrackBack to 'Libertarians and science'.

  1. factician said,

    Most libertarians I know are sound and rational people.

    It’s been my experience that every party and political group claims to be made up of the sound and rational people. The truth is, each group has their own anti-intellectuals (the crazy uncle in the attic that they prefer not to talk about). For liberals, it is the crazy alternative medicine types. For republicans, it is the crazy global warming deniers. And with libertarians it is often the folks who think the market can solve all problems.

    As much as each of these groups would like to lay claim to being the sound and rational people, none of them have a legitimate sole claim to that title.

  2. hktelemacher said,

    My primary problem with your characterization is that a libertarian who believes the market can solve *all* problems is not, at least to me, a libertarian anymore. Even a Randian, the outer fringe of what I would say was capable of being still properly categorized as libertarian, allows for the government provision of national defense and criminal investigation and punishment. The grounds you are claiming are libertarian anti-intellectual are in fact the turf of anarchists (see, e.g., this month’s Cato Unbound).

    My secondary problem with your characterization is that the anti-intellectuals among the liberals and conservatives have traits that are not critical to the core of the party’s/philosophies beliefs. But the idea that the market can solve at least most problems is a core value of libertarianism. You make the jump from mainstream libertarians to “anti-intellectual libertarians” such a small hop that you can use that tactic to marginalize our input to any argument.

    Beyond that you may have unintentionally put up a straw man. I never claimed that libertarians have sole claim to being sound and rational, only that I believe the philosophy to be sound and rational and therefore an intellectual brother to the discipline of science. I did not comment on whether I believe liberal or conservative philosophy also satisfies that criteria–it was not a necessary element to the message I am trying to deliver to libertarians or about libertarians to others.

  3. DuWayne said,

    factitian -

    To further hktelemacher’s point. I think your characterization of anti-intellectuals among liberals and conservatives, is way off. The lunatic fringe in leftist thought, are not alties and the like, they are the extremists or ideological purists, who place purity over reality – the exact same could be (and in a sense, you said) said of libertarians. With conservatives, again it’s the same, with much the same process as the libertarians. The anti-intelectualism, is the result of extremist ideology – nothing more, or less.

    The characterizations you made of those anti-intellectual elements, are not in any way inherently conservative or liberal. My church, for example, is split about 30% conservatives, 50% liberals with the rest being fairly moderate. I would have to say that probably about 80% of them are also religious fundamentalists, with the majority of those split between the more extreme liberals and conservatives. The more politically moderate parishioners tend to be the more moderate in their faith. I would also add, that the alties are more prevalent on the fringes as well, again split fairly evenly, between the liberals and conservatives. Basically, your characterizations were not really relevant to or inherent to any political stance. They are anti-intellectual stances that are entirely independent of political motivation. (my apologies if this is less coherent than it should be, I have rather extreme ADHD and today has been extremely bad for it)

  4. DuWayne said,

    hktelemacher -

    Please feel free to delete this as not terribly topical, I couldn’t find an email address for you.

    I would really love the opportunity to cross-post this to my blog as it touches on two topics that I want to address, one of which I already have (parental rigths, versus caring for kids). I actually agree with most of what you say here, though not all. I am trying to get to where only about half or less of the posts on my blog are written by me. Clicking my name will take you to my blog and my email address. I keep email addresses and non-pseudonyms confidential, per the wishes of people I correspond with.

    Thanks


Leave a Reply